AVA Movement Changes

Updates about what's going on with the website.

Re: AVA Movement Changes

by Alroth on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 12:07am

What got me was the "if you dont like what I say turn the computer off" mentality, it not just Tyler that does that its every cyber bully on the internet.

Why should other people leave the internet because you are being a cunt to them. Its like punching someone in the face and saying "If you dont wanna be punched, then dont stand there", How about you dont punch people instead,

This is probably more me having an issue with people on the internet that are dangus's. I get that people will have different points of view from time to time and we need that or else this will be a giant circle-jerk, but there is no need to call people "punk ass bitches".

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by Alroth on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 12:08am

Alroth wrote: but there is no need to call people "punk ass bitches".


Also as a foreigner I would like to ask, what is a "punk ass bitch?"

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by AarunFast on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 12:12am

Alroth wrote:Also as a foreigner I would like to ask, what is a "punk ass bitch?"

Just a phrase to put you down. There's not really any deep meaning, besides it being a generic insult.

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by wakefulsleep on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 12:17am

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by TheLong on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 11:04am

Skalor wrote:However, I am willing to talk to tyler in the future to see how things are going and perhaps consider giving him a second chance once we all have a bit of perspective (me included). As i've already said, I really do think tyler has a lot of decent qualities which are great to see when he decides to show this side of himself. I just think we were seeing too much of the wrong side (...)


I agree that you should talk with Tyler. You never said this was a permanent ban and I don't think it has to be. As I told you in the PM I sent you, I do believe that if someone is ready to change then I believe they deserve a second chance. It’s probably too soon. Tyler made me laugh sometimes and I agree he as a lot of decent qualities but as you said I also think that lately we were seeing too much of the wrong side. I just wish I could have handled my personal issue with him in a better way.

I hope you guys don't leave the forum because of this. You guys were angry and I know you don't mean some things you said but Skalor had to make a decision and it's not easy to be the guy who has to make decisions.
Last edited by TheLong on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 11:06am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by plopbellie on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 11:05am

My mind changes so easily. With the new trailer, fuck no im not leaving. im more excited than ever to be here! :P

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by ALVAYS10791 on Wed Oct 22, 2014, 11:44am

Skalor wrote:Ok this post is going to be a long one!

Looking at my first post I can see that I didn't go into much detail about why I decided to ban tyler182, so it looks particularly out of the blue. In reality my patience had continually growing thin each week. Everyone here has already agreed tyler was provocative and abrasive, even his defenders and himself admit this (see spoiler 1 below). This is such a welcoming message to new members...

Spoiler: show
tyler182 wrote:As for the people I've given negative rep to, it's never anything personal, it's because you're posting dumb shit. That's what the rep button is for...reputation. Mine appears to be alright, maybe you should check yourselves. Just because you're not as "abrasive" as I am, doesn't mean you're innocent. I may come off as a dick sometimes, but I've been contributing to this forum for a very long time. New people may not get it right away, but even though I'm not Mr. Cuddles, I still have a place here.
...I've removed part of tyler's post here for the sake of time...
And for the newbies complaining about me being oh so mean to you all the time and acting like you never do anything wrong and you somehow didn't deserve your negative rep:

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My patience was already ultra thin in recent weeks after seeing several users openly express their fear of posting due to his reactions (see spoiler 2 below).

Spoiler: show
ChrisDCMA wrote:Tyler was the reason I stopped posting for so long. everytime I posted an opinion, I was worried that he would come up, call me a name saying that I was stupid and say some random shit to prove his point like if it wasn't okay to have our own opinions (and yeah all my negative points came from him for really stupid reasons...)


Tyler replied to people who didn't want to post anymore due to his attitude with this:
tyler182 wrote:And the forum improved when you all left, so your welcome :lol:


This quote above is just one of a few users who had the balls to be open about how he felt. This and several other quotes made me think how many new members and non registered members thought the same way.

When I came back from a weekend break to see Tyler and Ryan had been going at it, I just had enough of the whole thing. And now that i've banned Tyler, already 3 newly joined members in 24 hours have confessed he was the reason they weren't posting.

StephenCWJ wrote:If you've ever had any problems in your life, you would know that regardless, you're gonna kick up a fuss about everything and anything. He shouldn't have been as rude as he was, but what he really needs is someone to talk to, not people to push him away. Maybe, instead of thinking about the 3-4 people who couldn't take his sarcastic jokes, think about what's going on with Tyler right now.


We cannot excuse Tyler's behavior because he's suffering in his personal life, I should also point out that neither him or anyone else actually stated to me that he had big personal problems. Only now Astronomy has told me a few things I sympathise with his pain, but not with how he channeled this into being aggressive to others. Ultimately i'm going to defend the people tyler is hostile to rather than tyler himself. Many of us here will have big personal issues, for all we know Chris (the guy who stopped posting due to Tyler) is suicidal and I would rather spend my time talking with him because he was making an active effort to be nice to people. Just because Tyler shouts the loudest doesn't mean he's deserves the most sympathy, attention or help.

Now i've spoke to all the other moderators privately and asked them to be straight and honest with me about what they thought about my decision to ban tyler. All of them agreed the ban should remain, apart from Tyler44 and Samir who havent responded. So it's concluded the ban remains for now.

However, I am willing to talk to tyler in the future to see how things are going and perhaps consider giving him a second chance once we all have a bit of perspective (me included). As i've already said, I really do think tyler has a lot of decent qualities which are great to see when he decides to show this side of himself. I just think we were seeing too much of the wrong side, and I would rather let other more positive members take the floor especially during a crucial time collaborating with Angels & Airwaves.

I realise I probably come across all pompous and righteous in these types of posts. I really wish I didn't have to write them, but if I never explained the decision making process then people would hate me even more.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I will address some other smaller comments here that are separate from my main points above.

fricktasticful wrote:Tyler is, and has been, one of the most active contributors on this forum for years, and even if his tenure isn't a reason to keep him from being banned

ALVAYS10791 wrote:you lost a lot of respect from a lot of us "old timers" that have stuck through thick and thin.

The fact tyler was an 'old timer' only shows how little he learnt from the past. It doesn't grant him privilege to be a dick. If anything you expect old timers to set an example to new members.

The moderators who are also 'old timers' agree with the ban along with all the posters in this thread minus 6 people. And as some of you pointed out, you can never get 100% to agree on anything. Whatever happened some 'old timers' would be upset with the state of the forum.

StephenCWJ wrote:You're going to lose more regulars than gain new (valuable, not trolls) members, I can tell you that for sure.

How can you be sure that we wont gain new valuable members?

StephenCWJ wrote:Also, don't bother trying to speak down to me. The fact you own this website means nothing to me.

I have never intended to speak down to you, probably with this heated discussion through typed messages it's easy to perceive my language different from how I meant. I'll never be able to please everyone no matter what I do with this website and I just have to live with that.

-------------------------------

Well done to anyone who managed to read this whole post. I owe you a drink.


Ok Matty. I've read everything that you have stated, but I'm still going to stick to my belief.

All I am asking is this... If Tyler is willing to clean up his act, can we have a 24-48 hr open poll for the community to vote if we believe that Tyler should have been banned. If the vote comes back that he is not welcome here than I will respect the community's opinion. If the vote comes back that he should be allowed here, than with an agreement of a better attitude, and with being on a probation could you reinstate him?

EDIT and for that drink Matty, I am going to request of 5th of Jack D. Ya I know it's a lot, but hell I'll drink the whole thing at once. :lol:

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by StephenCWJ on Thu Oct 23, 2014, 3:54pm

This is off topic from the Tyler discussion, but it's forum related so..

Facebook have this new app called "Rooms". It's only available on iOS just now, Android later. But the idea seems to be that you can now make forums on Facebook with the Rooms app. You don't have to be signed up to forums, you just have to be signed up to Facebook. So say there was an AVA Movement forum, you would be able to join the discussion on Facebook without knowing that there's an entire website for it. Or say you like cats, like me, and you want to talk about cats, look up the cat forum. I think it's a pretty neat idea. But I also think it'd be a really good idea for the AVA Movement, it would bring in traffic for this forum and would get people on Facebook more aware that there is a place to properly discuss the band without going on the Angels and Airwaves Facebook page with all the crazy 12 year old assholes. It's essentially a sub-reddit. You can read about it here, but I think it'd be cool to set up an AVA Movement room - http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/10/23/facebooks-new-rooms-app-brings-mobile-forums-to-your-phone/

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by Astronomy on Thu Oct 23, 2014, 5:29pm

- Post deleted by Astronomy-

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by Skalor on Thu Oct 23, 2014, 9:50pm

Despite some exaggerations, such as me seeing myself a 'god', I think you have some fair points. Some points have probably been made earlier. But only now i've realized the crux of the situation which i've highlighted in red below.

I've just emailed Tyler and cc you in. Part of the message is as follows:

From the proportion of members responses to the ban, I can count more who agree with the ban than disagree. However I think Astronomy has rightly pointed out that I was not moral in making this decision on my own, no matter how 'right' it actually is for the forum as a whole. Perhaps the most moral approach would have been to hold a vote.

So I have given Tyler a few options about what he would like us to do such as:
1) We hold a poll about the ban.
2) Coming back in a month+ for another try with the possibility of a poll if things go sour again
3) He doesn't come back
4) See what other ideas he has and we'll negotiate.

Do you think this is fair?

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by Skalor on Thu Oct 23, 2014, 9:54pm

StephenCWJ wrote:This is off topic from the Tyler discussion, but it's forum related so..

Facebook have this new app called "Rooms". It's only available on iOS just now, Android later. But the idea seems to be that you can now make forums on Facebook with the Rooms app. You don't have to be signed up to forums, you just have to be signed up to Facebook. So say there was an AVA Movement forum, you would be able to join the discussion on Facebook without knowing that there's an entire website for it. Or say you like cats, like me, and you want to talk about cats, look up the cat forum. I think it's a pretty neat idea. But I also think it'd be a really good idea for the AVA Movement, it would bring in traffic for this forum and would get people on Facebook more aware that there is a place to properly discuss the band without going on the Angels and Airwaves Facebook page with all the crazy 12 year old assholes. It's essentially a sub-reddit. You can read about it here, but I think it'd be cool to set up an AVA Movement room - http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/10/23/facebooks-new-rooms-app-brings-mobile-forums-to-your-phone/


This sounds great, thanks for sharing.

I don't have an iPhone. But i'll speak to the mods see someone wants to set this up. If not then i'll ask one of the members.

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by Skalor on Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:13am

I have had a mature conversation with Tyler. He was very honest about his behavior, admitting his mistakes and how he might have effected other people.

Me and the mods have decided to give him another chance. He understands our concerns and wants to improve.

If things really get out of hands again with Tyler or any other member, we would put action agaisn't them to a vote. I've learnt myself that it's wrong to make certain decisions without consulting all the members first, it doesn't matter if the majority agree in hindsight, it's the principle of democracy and community which is important.

Thank you everyone for the input. I look forward to moving ahead!

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by ALVAYS10791 on Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:59am

Skalor wrote:I have had a mature conversation with Tyler. He was very honest about his behavior, admitting his mistakes and how he might have effected other people.

Me and the mods have decided to give him another chance. He understands our concerns and wants to improve.

If things really get out of hands again with Tyler or any other member, we would put action agaisn't them to a vote. I've learnt myself that it's wrong to make certain decisions without consulting all the members first, it doesn't matter if the majority agree in hindsight, it's the principle of democracy and community which is important.

Thank you everyone for the input. I look forward to moving ahead!



Now, this is an action I can respect. Thanks Matty to listening to the community.

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by tyler182 on Sat Oct 25, 2014, 7:15pm

This thread makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :wub: I love you guys!

I never wanted to coast, always wanted to be an anomaly.

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by GodisAnAstronaut on Sat Oct 25, 2014, 7:17pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: AVA Movement Changes

by tyler182 on Sat Oct 25, 2014, 7:25pm

P.S. the new backgrounds are sick!

I never wanted to coast, always wanted to be an anomaly.

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